[ayso45-refs] U7B injury/goal and own goals (was: question about un-tied shoes)

[Beau James]

Mark Shustock wrote:

> I have a question.... this happened to me on Saturday while I 
> was ref'ing a 5 on 5 game...
>  
> At mid-field a player kicked the ball straight into the stomach of a 
> player on the opposite team.  He was trying to clear the ball and kicked 
> it hard and high - nothing deliberate.  The child that was hit remained 
> standing and appeared ok.  He was not crying.  He appeared calm.  
> However, he immediately started walking off the field under his own 
> power.  I did not stop play.  As he was walking to the sideline the 
> other team initiated a fast break and ran down the field (with me 
> following) and scored a goal.  I allowed the goal to stand.  However, I 
> could sense that the other team was upset I did not stop play for the 
> injury.  But, to me, it didn't look like a serious injury.  He walked 
> off the field under his own power.  I think he was just shaken up and 
> didn't know what else to do.   And the goal happened so fast - maybe 15 
> seconds after the incident.
>  
> WHAT SHOULD I HAVE DONE?

There's no strict right or wrong answer to your question.

 From your description, it sounds like it was not initially
clear to you that the player felt "injured".  One thing you
might do in such situations is to ask the player himself.
His response (or lack of one) may help you quickly assess
whether the player is able to continue playing.

Safety is always our first concern; fairness is the next.
In general, if a player does not obvously need immediate
attention, and is not endangered by the activity on the
field, then allowing play to continue may be appropriate.

It's a judgement call that should be age-appropriate: the
ref should stop play for a non-serious injury more quickly
in U7/U8 5v5 play than in U19 11v11 play.  Having one player
out of commission in 5v5 has a bigger impact on the fairness
of the match than having one defender out of commission during
her own team's attack on goal at the other end of the field
in 11v11.

> Next question, what about own goals in 5 on 5 games?  Should they stand 
> or not?  I allowed one two weeks ago but someone on the sideline who 
> said he was a ref told me (after the game) that I should not have let it 
> stand.  If not, how should I restart play?

I don't know where the ref-on-the-sideline got his information.
There is no such guidance in the AYSO National Procedures for
Short-Sided games, which Region 45 follows with only a couple
of region-specific variances:

* Region 45 choses to use goalkeepers even in U7 and U8 matches
* Region 45 has split the AYSO National "U8" division into separate
   U7 and U8 divisions, due to numbers of players.  U7 plays 5v5
   (consitent with AYSO National U8 guidelines), but in region 45,
   U8 plays 7v7.

If you happen to run into this referee again, and can get a reference
for his "no own goals" comment, I'll be happy to investigate further.

Beau

> Thanks!
>  
> 
>  
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: David Luskin <luskin at pacbell.net>
> To: Robert L. Henderson <bob at starshippilot.com>; ayso45-refs 
> <ayso45-refs at ayso45.org>
> Sent: Monday, October 2, 2006 11:52:37 AM
> Subject: Re: [ayso45-refs] question about un-tied shoes
> 
> The problem is, due to the wonders of Velcro, many children do not know how
> to tie their own shoes.  I believe they figure it out before they graduate
> from High School, but whereas in the old days every child knew by 5 years
> old, even at the U9 level a significant number of children do not know how.
> 
> So it is not a matter of simply telling/yelling to the child to tie his
> shoes when he has a chance.  Rather an adult is needed.  A referee can't ref
> while he is tying a shoe.  Further, if a ref decides to risk ignoring play
> for a minute to tie a players shoe while play is away from the child, while
> you are in the middle of tying play can return to the player.  This then has
> the effect of putting the players team down a person as the player is rooted
> in place while their shoe is being tied.  Plus the risk and problems
> associated with ref being unavailable for a minute or so.
> 
> Another option is to send the child to the sideline for a coach or parent to
> tie their shoe while play continues.  This has the unfortunate effect of
> putting the team down by one player.  And if the child happens to be a
> critical defender, it might end up being the reason another team scores a
> goal.
> 
> Of course, one can reason that if the opposing team scores a goal because a
> child is involved in having their shoes tied that is their penalty for not
> taking care of it properly in the first place.  But, as the child is likely
> not who tied their shoe in the first place, this does not seem to conform to
> "safe, fun, and fair".  In particular, not fair, as well as not fun.
> 
> So, with lots of ignorance, I would suggest that for some age groups
> (perhaps U9 and below) that some stop of play be allowed for tying of laces.
> If the problem seems out of control, such as maybe more than one or two
> stoppages in a half, then the ref could tell the coaches that the next time
> it occurs a player will be sent to the sideline for a coach or parent to
> handle the problem and play will not be stopped.
> 
> Regards,
> David Luskin
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ayso45-refs-bounces at ayso45.org [mailto:ayso45-refs-bounces at ayso45.org]
> On Behalf Of Robert L. Henderson
> Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 8:29 PM
> To: thad at yahoo.com; ayso45-refs
> Subject: Re: [ayso45-refs] question about un-tied shoes
> 
> Generally, there is no need to stop play unless you feel the player is
> in immediate risk.    The player should be told to tie the shoe and can
> do this while play is away from that player, such as at the other end of
> the field.   If play has stopped (for a throw-in, free kick, etc),  you
> may hold up the restart to allow the player to deal with the shoe.
> 
> Thad White wrote:
>  > Hi Bob,
>  >
>  > I have another question about stopping the game for untied shoes.  I
> assume
>  > that this is ok since it is an unsafe condition.  But I don't 
> remember any
>  > specific training on this.  Could you just confirm that this is 
> reason for
>  > stopping play and then resuming with a no-fault drop ball?  
>  >
>  > Thanks,
>  > Thad
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >  
> 
> -- 
> Bob Henderson
>   Starships piloted
>     Dragons slain
>       Soccer Refereed
> 
> 
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