[ayso45-refs] Goalie grabs ball...

[Kelly Cook]

That is a very good explanation/description for all.  Again, it depends on
the age group.

K.

 

-----Original Message-----
From: ayso45-refs-bounces at ayso45.org [mailto:ayso45-refs-bounces at ayso45.org]
On Behalf Of Geoff Blood
Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2006 1:50 PM
To: 'Kirshenbaum, Evan R'; 'Robert L Henderson'; scan1230 at comcast.net;
'Daniel Edelson'; bob at starshippilot.com
Cc: ayso45-refs at ayso45.org
Subject: Re: [ayso45-refs] Goalie grabs ball...

 

Evan,

Actually, I DID have a chance to ask them! Well, at leaset ONE of "them".
At a clinic in SF in 1997, we were visited by a member of the FIFA Rules
committee who participated in the just-completed re-write of the LOTG, and
this issue came up.  I can't quote him exactly, but the gist of what he said
was that this is a foul against the GK who should know better than to handle
the ball off the foot of his/her teammate.  He/she gets to use his/her hands
in defense of the goal, NOT to take the ball "out of contension" and slow
down the game.  He/she may legally act as a field player in this case, but
NOT as a GoalKeeper, since there is no "keeping" involved.

 

It is NOT a foul against the defender, it is a foul against the 'keeper for
abusing his/her privilege to handle the ball in protecting the goal.

 

Hope that helps,

Geoff

 

 

  _____  

From: ayso45-refs-bounces at ayso45.org [mailto:ayso45-refs-bounces at ayso45.org]
On Behalf Of Kirshenbaum, Evan R
Sent: Friday, November 03, 2006 7:49 AM
To: Robert L Henderson; scan1230 at comcast.net; Daniel Edelson;
bob at starshippilot.com
Cc: ayso45-refs at ayso45.org
Subject: Re: [ayso45-refs] Goalie grabs ball...

My suspicion is that if you actually asked the person who wrote those words,
they would tell you that all they meant was that it was still "kicked to"
even if the keeper needs to move a bit to get it, but that the ball needs to
at least have been plausibly intended to go to him.  If the ball is kicked
"in the direction away from the goalkeeper" (especially if the intent was to
get the ball out--to a place where he can't use his hands) and the keeper
has to run and get it, that wouldn't really seem to be the sort of thing
that's intended (unless the referee thinks that it's the sort of "deliberate
trick to circumvent the Law" mentioned in Decision 3).  Similarly, if the
keeper intercepts a clear pass between two teammates to prevent it from
being headed in by an opponent, I doubt that it really falls within the
intended spirit of the law (or the advice).

 

evan

 


  _____  


From: ayso45-refs-bounces at ayso45.org [mailto:ayso45-refs-bounces at ayso45.org]
On Behalf Of Robert L Henderson
Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 5:25 PM
To: scan1230 at comcast.net; 'Daniel Edelson'; bob at starshippilot.com
Cc: ayso45-refs at ayso45.org
Subject: Re: [ayso45-refs] Goalie grabs ball...

In the second scenario, why would it not be an infraction?   We do not judge
the intent of  the defender,  only if his/her kick was "controlled".   The
advice clear states that "kicked to" means to any place that the keeper can
get to.   It does NOT have to be kicked toward the keeper.   As always,  it
is ITOTR, "in the opinion of the Referee".

 

 

 Bob Henderson
Altair Grid Technologies - PBS Pro 

-----Original Message-----
From: ayso45-refs-bounces at ayso45.org [mailto:ayso45-refs-bounces at ayso45.org]
On Behalf Of scan1230 at comcast.net
Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 5:05 PM
To: Daniel Edelson; bob at starshippilot.com
Cc: ayso45-refs at ayso45.org
Subject: Re: [ayso45-refs] Goalie grabs ball...

I'd like to get a clarification in James' second scenario.  It's common that
a U10 defender intends to clear the ball in the penalty area in the
direction away from the goalkeeper but the ball doesn't go very far.  If the
goalkeeper runs toward the ball and grabs it, it shouldn't be an offence,
right?  The ball is not deliberately kicked to the goalkeeper.

 

Regarding Randy's email, I agree that the young players, e.g., U10, never
intend to waste time by passing the ball back to the goalkeeper.  When they
deliberately kick to the goalkeeper it's usually because they are under
pressure by the opposing team.  I thought we were asked to enforce this rule
in region 45 starting a few weeks ago.  Are we still supposed to give
warning, whether it's once or twice?

 

Stan

 

-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: "Daniel Edelson" <dre at edelsonassoc.com> 

Thanks. This is very clear. I previously misunderstood "to him" as requiring
intent of directing the ball to the goalkeeper.

 


  _____  


From: ayso45-refs-bounces at ayso45.org [mailto:ayso45-refs-bounces at ayso45.org]
On Behalf Of Bob Henderson
Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 12:45 PM
To: 'James Klazura'; ayso45-refs at ayso45.org
Subject: Re: [ayso45-refs] Goalie grabs ball...

 

Remember the offense is commited by the Goalkeeper,  not his/her teammate,
the defender.   Also, the term "pass" does not enter into the definition of
the offense.

 

Lets look at the Advise to Referees published by USSF...

 

12.20 BALL KICKED TO THE GOALKEEPER

A goalkeeper infringes Law 12 if he or she touches the ball with the hands
directly after it has been

deliberately kicked to him or her by a teammate. The requirement that the
ball be kicked means only

that it has been played with the foot. The requirement that the ball be
"kicked to" the goalkeeper

means only that the play is to or toward a place where the �keeper can
legally handle the ball. The

requirement that the ball be "deliberately kicked" means that the play on
the ball is deliberate and does

not include situations in which the ball has been, in the opinion of the
referee, accidentally deflected or

misdirected.

 

So,  if in your opinion as the Referee,  the defender controlled the ball (
it wasn't a deflection, or a muff ),  then it is an offense on the part of
the Keeper to handle the ball.   The restart would be a Indirect Free Kick,
IFK, from the point at which the Keeper touched the ball, suject to the
"special circumstances of Law 8".  

 

Be careful of the use of the word "penalty",   that implies the special form
of the direct free kick awarded when a "major" fould is commited in the
Penalty Area.

 Bob Henderson
Altair Grid Technologies - PBS Pro 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: ayso45-refs-bounces at ayso45.org [mailto:ayso45-refs-bounces at ayso45.org]
On Behalf Of James Klazura
Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 9:32 AM
To: ayso45-refs at ayso45.org
Subject: [ayso45-refs] Goalie grabs ball...

What if a defender has control and the goalie comes up and picks up the ball
(the defender did not pass it to her nor did she know the goalie was going
to pick it up)?  Is that a penalty?

 

What if defender had control and then started to clear it, but didn’t kick
it hard enough (ball still in the penalty area), and the goalie runs out to
get it?


Thanks,
James

 

 

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