[ayso45-refs] Goalie grabs ball...

[Geoff Blood]

Evan,
Actually, I DID have a chance to ask them! Well, at leaset ONE of "them".  At a clinic in SF in 1997, we were visited by a member of the FIFA Rules committee who participated in the just-completed re-write of the LOTG, and this issue came up.  I can't quote him exactly, but the gist of what he said was that this is a foul against the GK who should know better than to handle the ball off the foot of his/her teammate.  He/she gets to use his/her hands in defense of the goal, NOT to take the ball "out of contension" and slow down the game.  He/she may legally act as a field player in this case, but NOT as a GoalKeeper, since there is no "keeping" involved.
 
It is NOT a foul against the defender, it is a foul against the 'keeper for abusing his/her privilege to handle the ball in protecting the goal.
 
Hope that helps,
Geoff
 

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From: ayso45-refs-bounces at ayso45.org [mailto:ayso45-refs-bounces at ayso45.org] On Behalf Of Kirshenbaum, Evan R
Sent: Friday, November 03, 2006 7:49 AM
To: Robert L Henderson; scan1230 at comcast.net; Daniel Edelson; bob at starshippilot.com
Cc: ayso45-refs at ayso45.org
Subject: Re: [ayso45-refs] Goalie grabs ball...


My suspicion is that if you actually asked the person who wrote those words, they would tell you that all they meant was that it was still "kicked to" even if the keeper needs to move a bit to get it, but that the ball needs to at least have been plausibly intended to go to him.  If the ball is kicked "in the direction away from the goalkeeper" (especially if the intent was to get the ball out--to a place where he can't use his hands) and the keeper has to run and get it, that wouldn't really seem to be the sort of thing that's intended (unless the referee thinks that it's the sort of "deliberate trick to circumvent the Law" mentioned in Decision 3).  Similarly, if the keeper intercepts a clear pass between two teammates to prevent it from being headed in by an opponent, I doubt that it really falls within the intended spirit of the law (or the advice).
 
evan


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From: ayso45-refs-bounces at ayso45.org [mailto:ayso45-refs-bounces at ayso45.org] On Behalf Of Robert L Henderson
Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 5:25 PM
To: scan1230 at comcast.net; 'Daniel Edelson'; bob at starshippilot.com
Cc: ayso45-refs at ayso45.org
Subject: Re: [ayso45-refs] Goalie grabs ball...


In the second scenario, why would it not be an infraction?   We do not judge the intent of  the defender,  only if his/her kick was "controlled".   The advice clear states that "kicked to" means to any place that the keeper can get to.   It does NOT have to be kicked toward the keeper.   As always,  it is ITOTR, "in the opinion of the Referee".
 
 

 Bob Henderson
Altair Grid Technologies - PBS Pro 

-----Original Message-----
From: ayso45-refs-bounces at ayso45.org [mailto:ayso45-refs-bounces at ayso45.org] On Behalf Of scan1230 at comcast.net
Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 5:05 PM
To: Daniel Edelson; bob at starshippilot.com
Cc: ayso45-refs at ayso45.org
Subject: Re: [ayso45-refs] Goalie grabs ball...


I'd like to get a clarification in James' second scenario.  It's common that a U10 defender intends to clear the ball in the penalty area in the direction away from the goalkeeper but the ball doesn't go very far.  If the goalkeeper runs toward the ball and grabs it, it shouldn't be an offence, right?  The ball is not deliberately kicked to the goalkeeper.
 
Regarding Randy's email, I agree that the young players, e.g., U10, never intend to waste time by passing the ball back to the goalkeeper.  When they deliberately kick to the goalkeeper it's usually because they are under pressure by the opposing team.  I thought we were asked to enforce this rule in region 45 starting a few weeks ago.  Are we still supposed to give warning, whether it's once or twice?
 
Stan
 

-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: "Daniel Edelson" <dre at edelsonassoc.com> 

Thanks. This is very clear. I previously misunderstood "to him" as requiring intent of directing the ball to the goalkeeper.

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From: ayso45-refs-bounces at ayso45.org [mailto:ayso45-refs-bounces at ayso45.org] On Behalf Of Bob Henderson
Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 12:45 PM
To: 'James Klazura'; ayso45-refs at ayso45.org
Subject: Re: [ayso45-refs] Goalie grabs ball...


 
Remember the offense is commited by the Goalkeeper,  not his/her teammate, the defender.   Also, the term "pass" does not enter into the definition of the offense.
 
Lets look at the Advise to Referees published by USSF...
 
12.20 BALL KICKED TO THE GOALKEEPER

A goalkeeper infringes Law 12 if he or she touches the ball with the hands directly after it has been

deliberately kicked to him or her by a teammate. The requirement that the ball be kicked means only

that it has been played with the foot. The requirement that the ball be "kicked to" the goalkeeper

means only that the play is to or toward a place where the ‘keeper can legally handle the ball. The

requirement that the ball be "deliberately kicked" means that the play on the ball is deliberate and does

not include situations in which the ball has been, in the opinion of the referee, accidentally deflected or

misdirected.

 
So,  if in your opinion as the Referee,  the defender controlled the ball ( it wasn't a deflection, or a muff ),  then it is an offense on the part of the Keeper to handle the ball.   The restart would be a Indirect Free Kick, IFK, from the point at which the Keeper touched the ball, suject to the "special circumstances of Law 8".  
 
Be careful of the use of the word "penalty",   that implies the special form of the direct free kick awarded when a "major" fould is commited in the Penalty Area.

 Bob Henderson
Altair Grid Technologies - PBS Pro 

 
-----Original Message-----
From: ayso45-refs-bounces at ayso45.org [mailto:ayso45-refs-bounces at ayso45.org] On Behalf Of James Klazura
Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 9:32 AM
To: ayso45-refs at ayso45.org
Subject: [ayso45-refs] Goalie grabs ball...



What if a defender has control and the goalie comes up and picks up the ball (the defender did not pass it to her nor did she know the goalie was going to pick it up)?  Is that a penalty?

 

What if defender had control and then started to clear it, but didn’t kick it hard enough (ball still in the penalty area), and the goalie runs out to get it?


Thanks,
James

 

 

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